Q&A: Brooke Massender – "There's still a bizarre perception in some quarters that talent is distributed by postcode or school group"

In this Q&A, Herbert Smith Freehills global Head of Pro Bono and Pro Bono Counsel Brooke Massender discusses how a backpacking trip altered her life; the importance of giving Indigenous students a pathway into the legal profession; and why millennial talent should not be ignored.

Can you tell us how you became a lawyer?

“Well, it didn’t start in Australia and the career choice was not with any deliberate intent. I had negligible careers advice as a schoolgirl growing up in the north of England and studied the most random list of subjects. For my A levels I did German, history and biology – and you can’t do a lot with that combination of subjects! I applied for eight different courses at eight universities and law was just one of them, but I thought it would give me a good grounding. I enjoyed the degree, but never saw myself going into private practice. However, the reality of an approaching graduation and a lot of student debt hit home and I thought ‘I’m going to need a job’ and I did the clerkship round in London and didn’t really enjoy it. I felt like a fish out of water.”

Then a trip to Australia changed your life.

“Yes, I travelled to Australia and volunteered at the Sydney Olympics and later started paralegal work at Freehills and worked on some really interesting matters. I enjoyed the work and, from a cultural perspective, I felt comfortable in a way that I hadn’t in England. It just seemed like a genuine meritocracy, and I was offered the opportunity to stay.”

You quickly became interested in Australia’s Indigenous history. What happened?

“I remember backpacking around Australia in 2000 to Uluru and the tour guide – who had been married to an Aboriginal woman – saying to us, ‘Nobody on my trip is going to climb Uluru’, and we were a little surprised and curious and he explained that it’s against the wishes of the Traditional Owners. And I’d never heard that terminology before; in fact I’d never heard anyone address Indigenous issues at all. It opened up this big interest and many questions. I then read Peter Read’s pamphlet on the Stolen Generations and it led to more questions. That was the start of the last 18 years for me, trying to educate myself and educate others about some of the historical aspects of Australian life and what we can all do to make sure the next 200 years are dramatically different.”

After a stint in dispute resolution litigation, you are now in a senior pro bono role at a highly respected law firm. What is the attraction of pro bono legal work?

“Fundamentally, it’s a privilege and it’s humbling that clients are willing to trust you and share their stories. We work with some of the most vulnerable people in the country, including Indigenous and homeless clients. To be able to align our legal skills in a way that contributes something positive – not just to the individual but more broadly to society in the sense of access to justice – is rare. I don’t think many people get to do that every day when they come to work. If I were getting reflective and whimsical about it, this job allows me to address social justice issues that I care deeply about and be who I really am all day, every day. I don’t have to come to work and be someone else.”

What about the impact such community-centric work can have on a firm?

“Increasingly, there is recognition of the business case for pro bono. A firm’s pro bono credentials and how authentic they are in their pro bono commitments is a key ingredient in attracting and retaining graduate talent. It’s also a key ingredient in building the skills base of young lawyers. Pro bono work is part of a law firm’s ‘social licence to operate’. We’re not just going into a jurisdiction to reap the commercial benefits; we’re there for the long haul and we’re prepared to contribute to the social fabric of the community we’re operating in.”

Are there any downsides to working in this area?

“Much like many other frontline community professionals, you’ve got to be careful of compassion fatigue and burnout and be conscious on a day-to-day basis of resilience both for myself and the broader team. But it’s a role I absolutely love.”

You were recently awarded the Co-Chair’s Award from CareerTrackers – a national non-profit organisation that creates internship opportunities for Indigenous university students – in recognition of your longstanding commitment to increasing Indigenous participation in the legal profession. That must have been gratifying.

“It was lovely and a total surprise. The co-chairs were acknowledging the work we’ve done over a long time. It means a lot to me and the firm. CareerTrackers has done a great job and to be part of that phenomenon has been quite something to behold. We knew from day one when we heard about the concept that we wanted to be involved.”

Herbert Smith Freehills has made a 10-year commitment to the CareerTrackers program, joining high-profile corporations such as Bupa, Origin, Westpac, NAB, IAG, Lendlease, CBA and Qantas. Why did Herbert Smith Freehills sign up?

“When I met the founder and CEO, Michael Combs, he said to me that he’d been to all the law firms around town and was told it wasn’t possible to get law students through a program like CareerTrackers; that there wasn’t the right talent and that you could not get Indigenous students with the right grades to work in law firms. That was like a red rag to a bull. The problem was that law firms hadn’t imagined it in the right way. We had to see that it was possible and then work backwards and figure out how we could best do that. We were lucky at the time to get the support of a managing partner who was prepared for us to make a long investment because he knew that if we were to prove everybody wrong and show that there is enormous Indigenous talent – and that there is interest from Indigenous people in being legal professionals – that we would have to start with students as early as first and second year and get them into the business early and support them through uni and with the vocational aspects of their learning. Now we can say categorically that this programs works.”

About 30 Indigenous students have been through internship programs at Herbert Smith Freehills, with many going on to roles in the legal profession. What message do you have for others considering similar initiatives?

“I knew there would be hidden talent there – it was just a question of providing a pathway for that talent. For a lot of people, such Indigenous internship programs have countered the negative stereotype that has been fed through the media for so long that this is a group that can’t achieve or won’t achieve. There’s a real power for a law firm or a corporate environment where people who are the captains of industry can show that they are fully aware of the incredible potential of Indigenous interns.”

You have also led Herbert Smith Freehills’ Reconciliation Action Plan. Why is it so important to promote greater diversity, including through gender, Indigenous and disability initiatives, within legal firms and other workplaces?

“If we haven’t got equal representation of certain groups we’re not going to get the best outcomes and unlock talent and potential through diverse and inclusive teams. Having diverse teams means we have diversity of thought and people can bring new ideas and perspectives to the table. It’s the inclusion bit where the magic truly happens, but there’s still some way to go. There’s still a bizarre perception in some quarters that talent is distributed by postcode or school group. The more business can help to rebut that presumption so much the better.”

Our journal has a strong emphasis on leadership and we note that you have studied at Harvard and been involved with the Australian Institute of Company Directors. What leadership lessons have you learnt through such engagement?

“The Harvard course was a pivotal experience for me in that I chose to study authentic leadership development. What really resonated with me was the concept of servant leadership whereby I don’t have a role other than to ensure that my team members maximise their potential as leaders in their own roles. It’s not about what you do or don’t do; it’s about what you bring out in your team. Too often when we talk about performance in a corporate context we do it from a deficit model of ‘what is it that I don’t know how to do?’ and ‘how am I going to get better at doing that?’. The Harvard course turned that on its head for me and I was able to say ‘what is it that I’m not good at doing?’ and I need someone in my team who is really good at that and then I trust them and I give them autonomy to do that really well. I think that’s the better model.”

Your Australian journey from backpacker to pro bono lawyer has been quite a ride.

“Yes. I think that decision to stay in Australia was a gut feeling and I’ve been fortunate to operate within an organisation that has trusted me to articulate and address new areas of social need. I’m a naïve optimist and I think people are intrinsically generous. They want to help other people if and where they can. If you can show somebody that’s there’s someone else out there that has potential or hasn’t reached their potential for a reason that doesn’t feel fair, people are motivated to help. That’s a magical thing and it’s easier to do than you realise. Most people don’t do pro bono or volunteering because they’ve never been asked – not because they don’t want to.”

Do you have any final messages for our readers?

“Any readers in a legal management context should be aware that the concept of ‘purpose’ is coming to them in a big way. Within the workforce we have something like 30 per cent millennial talent, and by 2025 that will be up to 75 per cent, including the key decision-makers in our organisations by that point. So purpose needs to be entrenched in your business model. It’s not a nice-to-have. Pro bono for law firms and community engagement for corporates needs to be entrenched at a systemic level, at an executive level, or you will not be able to retain the talent and clients that you want in the future.”