Q&A: Fay Calderone – "We are finally starting to realise that to get more women into leadership roles in the workplace, we need to get more men out of it"

In this Q&A, Hall & Wilcox employment lawyer and Flexible Working Day Ambassador Fay Calderone explains why she loves the human element of law; why flexible work practices can benefit all firms; and why men need to play their part in the evolution of employment structures.

Given the closure earlier this year of your former firm, DibbsBarker, you must have faced a tough decision choosing between joining an international firm like many of your colleagues, or favouring a large national firm such as Hall & Wilcox. What convinced you to join the latter?

“Two things drove the decision – strategy and culture. Given the work I do and the song sheet I sing from, I was really drawn to the Hall & Wilcox purpose; that is, helping our clients, our people and our communities to thrive, along with the Smarter Law initiative that defines the more innovative way we work with clients. Innovation is a key differentiator and the firm’s values  of ‘Stay true’, ‘Be remarkable’, ‘Evolve always’, ‘Respect respect’ and ‘Better together’ really resonated with me. We truly live and breathe the values, and flexible work and diversity are integrated into the culture. I’m confident I’ve made the right choice.”

You have acted for employers across a range of industries for close to 20 years now. Do you still love practising law?

“I really do. There’s a real human element to practising employment law. I like people, I like that human connection. In my area, every day is different and the workplace is a reflection of what’s happening in the outside world, everything from the #MeToo movement to the future of work and the gig economy – it makes for such interesting work and interaction and conversations with clients. It’s about what’s happening in the world and the workplace and how we manage it moving forward. How do we create a better culture so we can get the best out of our people and avoid these disputes arising in the future?”

You are also a Flexible Working Day Ambassador. Tell us about that.

“I was approached to be a Flexible Working Day Ambassador by Vanessa Vanderhoek, who founded the Flexible Working Day initiative. We were connected through social media platforms and women’s networks and she approached me to be an ambassador given the advocacy I was doing for the advancement of women in the legal profession, leadership roles and other work around the creation of inclusive cultures. There’s now a clear recognition that there are structural and systemic issues at play that are preventing the progression of women – and flexible work initiatives are one structural change that is necessary in order to stop the bleed and increase the advancement of women. Inclusive workplaces are the cornerstone of not only advancing women into  leadership roles but also creating more respectful workplaces.”

Do you believe more people want to work for firms that have a culture of diversity and inclusion?

“Yes, there’s been a big shift. There’s been a recognition of the increased benefits that diversity brings and, if you look at reports and research as recently released by the Diversity Council of Australia, employees are 10 times more likely to be highly effective than workers in non-inclusive workplaces, and 19 times more likely to be satisfied in their jobs. So you’re creating better workplaces – not just diverse workplaces. Besides that, we’ve got to cater for the next generation who are altruistic by nature and see flexible work as a given. We need to do more than accommodate flexibility – we need to embrace it.”

Is the message getting across?

“Absolutely. It’s important to challenge the notion of flexible work being for return-to-work mums or the three-day-a-week part-time mother who gets relegated to  ‘mummy briefs’. That’s precisely the sort of sentiment that has hindered the progression of women in senior roles and is  why we often lose so many women in the professions. There needs to be meaning in the work. However, this concept is not just for mums or parents even – it’s offered across the workplace and that’s really the key to creating inclusive workplaces because you’re not differentiating between groups of people. It’s the new normal or default so there’s less likely to be discrimination.”

How can it work in practice at firms?

“Managers can contemplate three different types of flexible work – a formal arrangement whereby people apply for a variation of hours and work structures; an informal situation whereby people may work from home occasionally and want to manage their life better; and an agile arrangement whereby work is performed anywhere at any time without a contractual change. With the latter, there needs to be proper communication and structures and policies and procedures in place around that. It means, though, that agility is embraced by everybody and there can’t be any differentiation of discrimination with the policy.”

Where do men fit into the whole debate?

“In order to create an inclusive workplace and to increase the participation of women in leadership roles, we need to empower men to take on flexible work arrangements. It’s not just a structural issue, it’s a cultural problem. In order for there to be more equal participation in domestic duties and carer responsibilities at home, there needs to be a willingness and commitment by workplaces to allow it and the stigma attached to men taking flexible work has to be removed. We are seeing the pendulum swing and we are embracing champions of change and flexible work, both men and women are advocating for these practices. We’re finally starting to realise that to get more women into leadership roles in the workplace, we need to get more men out of it.”

What impact can flexible work have on the mental health of lawyers, an issue that has been concerning the profession for some time now?

“Mental health is another area of interest and it crosses into my day-to-day job with what I do with employers but also with mentoring lawyers, advancing women or creating inclusive workplaces. The mental health piece is critical. People can’t be running over 100 per cent and be focused on work exclusively all the time and be well-adjusted  human beings. It’s just not possible. Some of the hours lawyers work are just ludicrous and unsustainable and the consequences on health and wellbeing can be catastrophic People need lives outside of work and flexibility is one key to that.”

What about technology? Being connected all the time is creating issues for many professionals.

“Boundaries are important and procedures are needed in terms of flexible work. If people are supposed to be working three days a week, there must be boundaries to ensure they’re not actually working seven days a week from home. It’s difficult given the competitive legal market and the services we need to deliver to clients. It’s practice driven. In my area, for example, industrial disputes or a serious incident on site can happen at any time and as partners we need to be available. However, in terms of our employees, parameters must be set because constant connectivity increases anxiety and decreases concentration,  hindering the ability for deep thought and critical thinking that is so important.”

If you could give firms just three tips for implementing a flexible work environment, what would they be?

“Broadly, as a principle you have to start with a let’s-make-it-work mindset, otherwise people will always be able to come up with reasons why it may not work. After that, the three points are as follows. First, accept that you are implementing both structural and cultural change. That requires education. It’s not just about jostling the deck chairs or changing work practices; it’s a cultural change and there needs to be trust and proper leadership around that. Second, the changes must be about everyone in order to be inclusive – it’s not just a thing we do for mummies or daddies for a couple of weeks when they have a baby. It’s for everyone so they can bring their authentic self to work and be able to balance their home and life commitments. Third, it’s about communication. We need to communicate the successes and let people know about the flexible-work champions; what’s happening and how it’s working really well. We also have to discuss the challenges and develop solutions to those challenges, otherwise detractors will undermine the work that it being done in this area. We can have a healthy dialogue.”

For other leaders in the workplace, do you have any final messages for them?

“I’m big on compassionate leadership. Lawyers are often black and white in their thinking and quite perfectionistic. That’s a common theme and I don’t think we’re going to change that – we attract a certain breed into our profession and our training reinforces that and our practices reinforce that again. However, if we’re going to engage the next generation of lawyers and have them stay in our profession we need to have more authentic, compassionate and inclusive leadership. Failing is often not considered an option in our profession, but we need to learn from our mistakes and assist with resilience programs and work on mental health and mentoring programs. That also means showing vulnerability and developing connection with our employees, as well as supporting and sponsoring groups of people like women,  culturally diverse and indigenous populations that don’t always progress in the profession.”

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